2012-10-01 07:10 AM
Would it be possible for ST, it's technical staff, or FAE's to participate in this forum in a more meaningful way?
#evertdekker.com2012-10-02 06:39 AM
I participate in several fora and NONE have the company participating.
they all have ''a Clive'' and I guess the company realized that free labor is free. Erik2012-10-02 08:34 AM
I participate in several fora and NONE have the company participating.
Actually I wanted to prove you wrong, but failed ... This forum has obviously an active support team: but it is toolchain supplier, and not directly associated with NXP.> they all have ''a Clive'' and I guess the company realized that free labor is free.Matches also my impression. To a great extend this silicon vendors rely on support by ''freaks'' and unpaid experts. To give an comment from customer side: My company almost always chooses the cheapest uC that does the job. And ''not doing the job'' also includes ''could do the job, if only there was support for our frustrated developers''. And the impression of a failed project because of lousy support and documentation does not fade away quickly ...
2012-10-02 08:54 AM
I do not know if this is related, but there is a high cost associated with supporting ''ignorant amateurs'' (NO, I am not, by this calling all amateurs ignorant) so, I guess, since most semiconductor manufacturers consider it a waste to support anyone that does not buy 1.000.000 chips they 'offload the ''ignorant amateurs'' to the user forum. I know for a fact that if I e-mail support from my private e-mail, the support is nonexistent; however if I use my customers e-mail, I do get support.
I was told by someone (the company name shall be withheld) that the programming data for the old '51 derivatives was removed from the datasheets since it cost 10 of thousands of dollars responding to all the amateurs, that did not have an inkling about timing etc, building defective programmers. If you look at historical fora entries you will easily see that amateurs 'building' programmers and substituting components all over the place and then asking ''why does it not work'' was a VERY frequent item,. oh, enough of this trip down memory lane, Erik2012-10-02 09:49 AM
...since most semiconductor manufacturers consider it a waste to support anyone that does not buy 1.000.000 chips...
The actual numbers might vary, but the fact holds true. If you buy the chips (at present time), you get support. Trying to avoid any MBA bashing, this seems to be an effect short-term oriented thinking and planning. In more than 20 years in the industry, I hardly ever met a manager with a horizon of more than one business year. It just does not come to their minds that a significant part of those ''ignorant amateurs'' could be students or interested young people that will become the future customers. Why companies like Microsoft and others pressing so hard to get their software into universities for free ?2012-10-02 02:15 PM
Traditionally, companies like ST have provided direct support (through FAEs, etc) only to their largest customers.
For the smaller guys, support was always delegated to the distributors. As others have already noted, not many major semiconductor companies actively participate in their user forums - in my experience, TI stands out as an exception to this rule. But I think things are changing, and customers are coming to expect manufacturer support via forums. ST need to think carefully about whether they want to embrace - or even lead - this change, or get left behind...2012-10-02 02:24 PM
''semiconductor manufacturers consider it a waste to support anyone that does not buy 1.000.000 chips...''
That implies some active decision making - I'm not sure its that proactive...
ST seem to be particularly confused at the moment as to who, exactly, they are targetting: the pricing & packaging of the Discovery boards is clearly aimed to attract amateurs, but the/db904f50
, breadboard incompatibility, lack of forum interaction all say otherwise!2012-10-02 04:03 PM
Well, I feel I must give TI (former Luminary Micro) a nod for their Stellaris Forums presence. Although they have one or more Clive1s, TI proper is _very_ well represented too. Unfortunately, I had to look elsewhere for our advanced products due to many hardware shortcoming and long standing errata (''shoot low and fall short''). Notably, I recognize at least one of TI forums former ''Clive1's'' here in the STM32 forum... (Hello A.N.)
Regards, Dave2012-10-03 05:37 AM
It's certainly to ST's detriment to neglect this forum. As with most bad ideas, it's probably management's ''chase the shortest skirt'' (i.e., largest quarterly projections) mentality. So, once again, getting it right falls to the engineers. ST's own developers should be very active in this forum, at least the ones that actually care about their products.
2012-10-03 06:56 AM
Would it be possible for ST, it's technical staff, or FAE's to participate in this forum in a more meaningful way?
the problem, ST FAE or anybody else faceas is that there is a ''developent technique of ''throw some code together and, if it does not work, post it''. A company person would, almost, be forced to handle those, and, once such were handled, just see the barrage of posts Erik2012-10-03 07:49 AM
The thing is, if you make these $10-20 Discovery boards, and throw design competitions, you're pretty much inviting everybody to the party, which I presume is the goal. At that point you've kind of committed yourself to catering the party, and serving everyone that shows up.
There are certainly some $1M thresholds to obtaining some support, as it separates the customers from the tire kickers. That is more one-on-one support, the forum is group support, where the answers have resonance beyond the original question, and can be found via global search engines. This doesn't stop people asking the same questions over-and-over, but it does allow self starters to find things. I can see that wearing an official hat brings a lot more perceived responsibility in the answer, but I'm not seeing any stealth presence here either, or much in the way of a caretaker/janitor. I've been using the ''Report Abuse'' button on threads/posts that really need some technical analysis (ie how things work at a gate/design level), but there should be a better way of getting things escalated.