2009-08-10 04:58 AM
Wireless hopes and dreams
2011-05-17 03:45 AM
Hi
I'm quite experienced with radios short-long range and serial communications. If you are still looking for solutions contact me .2011-05-17 03:45 AM
Hi russ1,
I've read posts diagonally, hope that my solution will be helpful. There is a board from OLIMEX (STM32-103STK) that has the following features: * MCU: STM32F103RBT6 ARM 32 bit CORTEX M3â„¢ with 128K Bytes Program Flash, 20K Bytes RAM, USB, CAN, x2 I2C, x2 ADC 12 bit, x3 UART, x2 SPI, x3 TIMERS, up to 72Mhz operation * 2.4 Ghz transciever with Nordic nRF23L01* standard JTAG connector with ARM 2x10 pin layout for programming/debugging with ARM-JTAG * USB mini connector * LCD NOKIA 3310 BW 84x48 pixels * 1.5V battery connector with step-up converter * 3-axis accelerometer * SD-MMC card * Audio input * Audio output * user buttions x2 * Joystick with 4 directions and push action * UEXT connector for other Olimex's modules connection like MOD-MP3, etc. * RESET button * status LED * 8 Mhz crystal oscillator * 32768 Hz crystal and RTC backup battery connector * extension headers for all uC ports * PCB: FR-4, 1.5 mm (0,062''), soldermask, silkscreen component print * Dimensions: 90 x 65mm (3.5 x 2.5'') Please refer to the following link: http://www.olimex.com/dev/stm32-103stk.html B.R. M3allem [ This message was edited by: M3allem on 29-01-2009 15:23 ] [ This message was edited by: M3allem on 29-01-2009 15:27 ]2011-05-17 03:45 AM
Quote:
On 29-01-2009 at 13:36, Anonymous wrote: Hi I'm quite experienced with radios short-long range and serial communications. If you are still looking for solutions contact me . I would love to get more recommendations for wireless. At this point I have done a good deal of research on this subject and my conclusion is that the Nordic nRF24LE1 is our best option. It has a great price point and good reference designs. I have included my analysis in a spreadsheet which may be helpful to others on my same path. It has prices, including developement costs, and IDE tool costs.2011-05-17 03:45 AM
I should note that there are numerous other IC's that I did research on and the ones in the spreadsheet are the most viable options I came across.
2011-05-17 03:45 AM
Hi russ1;
I saw your sheet and you sayed that Must write stack and protocol in the case of STM32, but I think that OLIMEX has write the driver of nRF24L04 with stm32. I attach the driver. PS: the driver is available on www.olimex.com B.R. M3allem2011-05-17 03:45 AM
I wasn't aware of that. Thank you.
2011-05-17 03:45 AM
Ok Russ1
I will give you some directions since the subject of RF and transmission requires a lot of expertise and some consider it ''black art''. Separate first of all two worlds and one is the radio part and the second is the digital part . It's funny to evaluate radios in terms of standby current and data rate since for radio guys the real parameters judging the reliability of a radio are usually hidden or specified very shortly. Keys parameters in a radio design regarding the receiver are it's noise figure , compression point, image rejection, adjacent channel rejection and a long list of other parameters that mainly describe the range you will achieve and the behaviour your link will have if it's surrounded by other closely operating rf links . Regarding the transmitter you have parameters such as output power , adjacent channel leakage , modulation efficiency , harmonics suppresion etc. Finally the antenna is another serious factor not to be taken lightly as is the path loss calculation, fading etc. These chipsets you are referring on the market are not designed for anything serious regarding radio performance. For example it's nice to see those +10 dbm chipsets operating at 2.4 GHZ but it's doudtfull the results you will achieve operating in frequencies occupied with other wlan's . Don't expect a long range link . On the other side if your demands are short range then you can give it a try. Follow these rules Use a formula to calculate open space path loss so you evaluate ''link budget'' offered by the chipset. If you see high sensitivity in a chipset check immediately compression of the receiver. If you need extra db's power check antenna alternatives . Adding an amplifier will add up to a mess that usually leads to trouble since these chipsets are not easy to deal (extra isolation etc.) Finally legal problems if you transmit higher than power dictated by regulations and if you don't have a spectrum analyzer handy usually spurious and harmonics are the rule. IN the past i have designed for a customer short range in house wireless link based on the nRF2401 .Speed i have achieved is 57600 bps and it was working with an AVR . No protocol is required since it was just a virtual serial port. What nRF2401 lacks is RSSI , easy amplifier connection , and the receiver is not of serious performance (as most of these chipsets anyway) . The specs though regarding distance and cosumption were ok so i implemented it .You don't need a protocol to implement what you want .Code size was about 2K written with a c compiler . What the nRF2401 is missing is an RSSI measurement and easy external amplifier connection (the rx-tx switch is inside) .Although the link budget was marginal i implemented prototype based feed closed dipole antenna printed on FR4 that gave omnidirectional coverage and added another 2.1 dBi (If you don't have a vector network analyzer then you need black art !!! to tune it) that increased the link performance to acceptable values. From my research recently, i like the CC1101 with STM32Fxx which seems more adequate for long range communications (with external modifications) and low power consumption but if you don't test these things by yourself you can't easily express an opinion . Sorry for my long talk but it's a big subject.!!! [ This message was edited by: mkefalas on 29-01-2009 20:23 ]2011-05-17 03:45 AM
mkefalas,
Thank you very much for your insights. I guess it takes an expert on the subject to teach me how little I know. I really appreciate it. Back to researching I go. Can you recommend any other resources on this subject. You mentioned modulation efficiency and RSSI; I am going to need to look up more details about such critical RF design points. You also mentioned short and long range communication. My question is how you are defining the two terms. My goal is a very strong RF link (in the 2.4GHz band) over 100-130 feet (line of sight). Is this doable with the Nordic parts? Also, I am not going to be using an amplifier. [ This message was edited by: russ1 on 29-01-2009 20:48 ]2011-05-17 03:45 AM
Dear Russ1
Nordic will give you +7-8 dBm output power . Now you have to design your link at -60 dBm. Where you are loosing is the fact that nordic needs 1MHZ BW since its designed for 1 mbit communication so that dictates low sensitivity since you need a lot of BW .If you use narrow BW (25 KHZ is sufficient for 9.6 kBps) communication you increase sensitivity and operate reliably at -90 dBm .To give you the idea every 6 dB you double the distance so from -60 to -90 dbm you have 2x2x2x2x2=32 times nRF24L01 distance. Use Riis formula to calculate path loss you need to cover at that frequency and start your calculations. In 1997 i designed a link at 2MBps @2.0 GHZ with a range of 30 km. Like the ones that drive parabolic antennas the one you see in Telecoms towers. That is long range Short range are +10 dBm output devices. I don't want to fire a conversation about these terms since a 10 dBm device can go 50 km but it's just the feeling i want to give you . The CC1101 doesn't require an amplifier for 100-130 feet L.O.S .Just don't neglect a good antenna . You can also use nRF2401 without amplifier but forget these things you see in printed antennas included in application manuals. Wish you the best with your design2011-05-17 03:45 AM
Check out www.connectblue.com for a wide range of Bluetooth serial port adapter modules.
/Tomas