CubeIDE forcing you to login to ST is complete [...]

[JDoe.2]

I don't care if the title of this post breaks some sort of forum usage rule, I just need to make it absolutely plain that I am sick and tired of every last company on Earth insisting I have an account with them and use it whenever I so much as breathe, drink a glass of water or, Chtuluh forbid ! update a HAL library for a microcontroller.

I believe there are more than enough bugs in CubeIDE, let alone actual necessary features that are missing, to keep your developers occupied forever. You did not need to waste everyone's time forcing people to login to ST. This feature brings nothing, helps no one but yourselves, and was asked by absolutely nobody, ever. So please, may I suggest you rethink this stupid, bordering on evil new addition to CubeIDE, and remove it with the next version ?

FYI, some of us work in companies where our computers are not, must not and cannot be, connected to the internet. It's already tough enough installing some of your HAL libraries (the patches) while being offline, we do not need the additional hassle of a login system that does nothing useful anyway.

A tool has to be convenient. If my screwdriver required an internet connection so as to snitch on how many turns I do in each direction depending on my GPS location, I'd start considering switching to fingernails or rocks.

You are welcome to try and make a case as to why you need me to log in to download updates to stuff you provide free of charge. I do need a good laugh.

Oh and I haven't checked on my last CubeIDE ticket... did you finally fix the bug where CubeIDE is confused when launching firmware on a target with Flash banks swapped ? Because that would sure be of actual use to the legions of programmers doing FOTA.

[Pavel A.]

But look again at #2: he wants the tools and tutorials to be free, but in real world there is no free. Someone has to pay for it. We end users usually have to pay with our time and effort. Or we can pay someone else for their time and effort.

Good educators are rare, this is a special talent and it is scarce. /* My hope is with the AI: imagine a consultant that  always has time for you, never bored, ingests tons of code, manuals, errata in a second. But this sounds too good for us to get? */

[Harvey White]

Every time a processor is bought, there is an amount of money that goes to support the "free" tools.  We end users pay with the additional cost burden put on each processor and part.  It adds up.

I do not think that writing clear and concise code which is well commented requires the talent of an educator.  On the other hand, it's not an educator you need, it's a teacher.  Sadly, not the same thing.  Tutorials and "how to" may require a teaching ability.  We've seen what happens when that ability seems to be missing.

Perhaps a technical writer (a separate discipline) would be of use.

I suspect that the hope on AI is, as of yet, overrated.  Feed in bad information and an AI is likely to make flawlessly logical decisions that are completely wrong. 

 

[TDK]

The forced login is intrusive and detracts from the user experience for little to no gain. Probably only there to be used as a mechanism for tracking.

That said, it is unfair to paint STM32CubeIDE as some half baked solution. It has gotten better over the years and is significantly better than the free options that preceded it. It is at least on par with offerings from other chip vendors.

Like HAL or not, you can have a nucleo board, click a few things in CubeIDE to load an example, hit play, and be up and running in under 5 minutes. That counts for something. Wasn’t always that way.

Bugs with objective data behind them are often met with positive responses here by ST, especially within the past year.

[CBerg]

I second with that: HAL is bashed to heavy IMHO. Yes, the SPI drivers e.g. are somewhat bloated, but you are always free to switch to the LL drivers if you have the need for more speed. Yes, that's quite an effort for the developer, but i guess it's also unfair to expect the manufacturer to provide you an almost finished solution for every case. It's the developers job to do the heavy thinking.

I can also state that the customer support from ST is pretty good. I had one (potential) project crushing bug last month and the support agent helped me out with a workaround within a few days. That saved me a lot of headache. So from my experience I can't complain, and those who do may evtl. consider, that software-issues with your blinky sketch are not necessarily an apropriate task for the customer support ;)

Back to topic: engineers simply don't like to be constantly monitored. A forced login is some kind of survilance and logging in with your CommunityID makes that survilance personal. It feels like some supervisor is sitting on my shoulder and whatching every mouseclick. I simply don't like that. That's like a survilance camery controlled by someone else in your bathroom. An anonmous ID - created during installation - would do the same job, if it's used for statistics (which MCUs do I prefer, how big are my projects, which peripherals to I use).

I have no objections against providing such data - anonymously. If e.g. some Managing guy at ST gets the idea to drop U(S)ART for some reason (most likely to save cost ...) the collected data would most probably show immediately that this would be a very bad idea.

 

[Harvey White]

You may be missing a point.  I do not call the IDE as a half baked solution, those are your words.  I'm sure it's gotten better.  I would like it to be better than it is, and I am not sure that the "let's make it better" is quite going in the right direction. 

I have said nothing about HAL being bad, although I would like more design information and more understanding about WHY the choices were made.  That seems to be a matter of better documentation. 

The "load an example" is part of a larger problem.  The examples seem to use BSP, which while well suited for examples, teach nothing, show nothing, and only demonstrate "this is neat" features.  If the IDE and examples were to be useful at all, then why not have the examples use the tool that is provided as the solution to many problems, CubeMXIDE.  Perhaps I have missed the examples that are based on the MXIDE interface, and only seen the BSP.  I rather suspect that the BSP software is done by an entirely different group of people.

Bug response was never the point of my comments, other than to say that the fewer bugs the better.

 

[PaperWish]

We are choosing CPU, now I will add the forced login as a BIG minus for ST, what about our build system we will need a login for the build server? or fuss about copying packages.

ST may lose plenty customers by building this wall, and what about students (future customers) do you think they get happy?

[DKlem.3]

I agree. This is reeeeeally irritating. It's not even that I don't have Internet access. In fact, I'm sitting here listening to a podcast. But when I am forced to log in through the IDE, it says that it can't connect. So I come here, find this post, and get ready to complain. But when I try to reply, it can't connect to the authentication server! There's the problem! So I'm dead in the water until ST brings up their authentication server.
I can understand ST wanting me to log in to download the IDE. I could even understand wanting me to authenticate when I install the software. But every time I create a project, I have to log in again!?

[CBerg]

@JDoe.2usually I am the guy with the heavy rants ;) Now you did the job.

But don't be to angry. I guess it's good to clarify and communicate to ST that forced logins, "artificial limitations" and such stuff are not in the interest of the user. But ST is not Microsoft who can simply force you use their stuff besides all their impudence with their spyware ("TeLeMeTrY" - haha) and bloatware: ST has competitors and I guess ST understands pretty well, that an IDE or access to tools and drivers is a pretty important part of the "whole user experience" they better do not mess with.

[Piranha]

More of an "enjoyable cohesive experience":

https://community.st.com/t5/stm32cubemx-mcus/user-authentication-why/td-p/615814

The most hypocritical thing of all this telemetry nonsense, apart from a common sense, is that even this forum is literally full of all kinds of reports and suggestions of what the users actually need and what they don't. Yet ST doesn't give a jack about it...

[Harvey White]

It is likely we are dealing with a pushme-pullyou (See Doctor Dolittle).  One head at either end.  (No, don't ask).

The statistics and the like, with logins, are not being done by engineering, but by marketing.  Marketing says that they must have this data to determine how their products are used, and how to direct engineering to make new products and services.  To not have this information is to completely abandon the customer and not be responsive to the market.

The other head is engineering, which, since marketing is in charge, can only look to see where it has been.  It is concerned with such silly things as making the product better, more desirable, and actually work to do what the customers want.  However, since engineers (and programmers) never drive a company, the proper thing to do is to make sure that the products are marketplace driven, not feature (as in working) driven.  Since marketing likely does not read this forum, possibly cannot understand the questions nor the solutions, and certainly doesn't find answers to what it wants to know in a morass of technical details........ well....

 

 

[Pavel A.]

Marketing, why not. So many clones are around; obviously ST does not want them to use their tools and libraries easily.

[JDoe.2]

Yeah, those clones are a problem for everybody (not just ST but anyone buying an STM32 now could receive a fake chip). That being said, a login won't help. It's too easy to create a fake e-mail account and sign-up.

I remember when AMD and Cyrix and later VIA started making x86 processors. It did cut into Intel's x86 marketshare (of 100% :-D) but they didn't start requiring developers to create accounts to use a compiler. ST could implement hardware solutions to create an authenticity test in their chips if they really felt the need.

@Tobe now that is a scary thought. I like the idea that there's a free toolchain for STM32. But I don't think ST will want us to pay for CubeIDE... because then they'd have to provide customer service. Don't know about you, but if I have to pay anyway then I'm not sure CubeIDE is going to be my first choice. IAR and Keil have left me mostly with good memories, it wouldn't take much to send me back into their arms. And then ST can kiss goodbye to all that juicy usage data they are no doubt stealing from us.

[Tobe]

They probably cant force you to pay for cubeIDE, since its opensource i believe. But all the other tools taht come with. Updates and more. Wasnt he talking about cubeMX?