769disco and 746disco - what is the direction?

[Dan Mackie]

Posted on February 09, 2018 at 06:53

   ST is to be complimented for three specific design improvements apparent in the 769disco.  FIrst, it actually has a connector to the display, rather than the LCD cable being soldered directly to the board, as is typical of the 429-disco and the 746-disco. This ought to make it much easier to upgrade the system.  Furthermore, ST is actually making two versions of the 769-disco - one with a display, and one without, so we don't have to buy a system with a display, and then throw the display away because we are upgrading the system to a larger brighter display to be sunlight visible.  The third is that the 769disco has mounting holes, as does the 746disco, where the 429disco has none.  I have wanted all of those improvements with other systems we have bought from ST through distribution.  Thanks for the progress ST!

   However, I also have a question or two.  One, I would like to see downloadable full system source kits including the CubeMx project file, for all boards, starting with the 769disco, of course!  It would make it a lot easier to adapt the system, rather than having to puzzle out what device support is required.  If you have not had to do that, lucky you.  ST, please make this happen soon.  You should find that to be dead easy, and VERY popular.

   Two, I would like to see better stability in the product mix available.  We shipped multiple 746disco units that we upgraded to  7' sunlight visible LCDs, and now find that there are no more 746disco units available here, and only electronic rumors of 87 being available at Newark UK.  Newark in Canada has not be able to nail down their UK options for us to date.  Digikey, Arrow, and Future have no stock of the 746disco at all.  However, there are nearly 1000 pieces of the 769disco available, so we are checking out the 769disco because we are forced to, not because we want to.

   I am sure we can be criticized for having shipped systems with xxx-disco units, and be told that we should have built our own boards to ship.  However, if what ST is doing with chips is good, what is wrong with using their boards too,

instead of only using their board designs?   If what you are doing is selling, figure out how to sell more of it, and keeping stock in the distribution channels sounds like a good move.  Dropping product availability significantly makes the marketplace wonder what is really happening.

   If you agree or disagree with the points above, say so.  If enough of us encourage ST in the right direction, they might actually go there!

Dan

#downloadable-full-source-kits #stability-of-product-mix

[john doe]

Posted on February 10, 2018 at 00:06

you should probably at least glance at the licensing agreement.  just sayin'.

http://www.st.com/resource/en/license_agreement/evaluationproductlicenseagreement.pdf

 

[Dan Mackie]

Posted on February 10, 2018 at 00:49

Good comment, thanks.

[T J]

Posted on February 10, 2018 at 01:48

stm.013

thanks, I guess we should have a look at the agreement that we all signed.

Mackie.Dan

‌ As you can see by the agreement, you are not supposed to use these eval units in a commercial machine.

Hence, did you consider making your own boards ? I use Kicad, well recommended and FREEEEEEE

We have just purchase our own pick n place, for $10k.

SMT460

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OgxhMpkzvdA

[Dan Mackie]

Posted on February 10, 2018 at 06:05

We have used Pulsonix for circuit board design, and had to design our own boards, since the ST boards are admittedly not suitable for direct interface, because they have deliberately avoided that, it seems.  However, the line between using a chip from ST, and a circuit board from ST with the chip on it seems to be a extremely fine line, from my point of view as a genuine customer of ST, not a competitor of theirs.  It seems we are splitting that hair in this game.  We have not tried to present the ST boards as our own, and have no intention of ever so doing.  I would expect the content in the document referred to above is more directed at ST defending themselves against competitors, rather than restricting customers.  Usually having a supplier sue a real customer is quite unhealthy PR for the supplier, I would think.  Granted I am not ST, and cannot presume to know their intentions.

[T J]

Posted on February 10, 2018 at 07:21

it is likely an insurance and blame issue...

[Joerg Wagner]

Posted on February 10, 2018 at 20:13

You should wait for 743DISCO.

[Dan Mackie]

Posted on February 10, 2018 at 23:06

But I can die waiting.  Until there is stock in the distribution pipeline, planning on it makes no sense to me.

[Joerg Wagner]

Posted on February 11, 2018 at 00:05

Order at mouser, they have 1,215 in stock.

[Dan Mackie]

Posted on February 11, 2018 at 01:48

1215 of what in stock?  746G-disco?  They have 0 in stock, and 1215 on order, with first projected delivery March 28.

That's not very interesting, until we get to March 28.

[Joerg Wagner]

Posted on February 11, 2018 at 10:05

Sorry it was late. You're right. Even RS says probably 03/13.

[john doe]

Posted on February 11, 2018 at 01:10

This stuff is literally all open source. the bill of materials and gerber files are freely available. I'm willing to contract a batch getting built and sell you an unencumbered lot!

[Dan Mackie]

Posted on February 11, 2018 at 01:51

If I am going to contract for a batch, then I want changes, because the existing design is needs changes.  If I am buying a few, then I can accept what is.  And if I am going to wait for changes, then I want the design files as well.  We are using Pulsonix.  What are you using?

[john doe]

Posted on February 11, 2018 at 02:28

oh, im not using anything.  ive never done this before in my life.  im just totally willing to seize the opportunity on the off chance you're willing to do the right thing.

[T J]

Posted on February 11, 2018 at 01:56

only 1 in stock, its the H753 the big brother to everyone... with Crypto

https://au.mouser.com/ProductDetail/STMicroelectronics/STM32H753I-EVAL?qs=sGAEpiMZZMve4%2fbfQkoj%252bFS3k1ne2k8tpamdnfHbhJU%3d

Enlarge

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https://au.mouser.com/ProductDetail/STMicroelectronics/STM32H753I-EVAL?qs=sGAEpiMZZMve4%2fbfQkoj%252bFS3k1ne2k8tpamdnfHbhJU%3d

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New Product

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1

In Stock

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$689

Min.: 1

Mult.: 1

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[Joerg Wagner]

Posted on February 11, 2018 at 11:15

I would sell my 746-DISCO (B2B) and can ship immediately .

Honestly, I don't need it because I put the focus on the 769-DISCO.

Probably you'll find other guys as well.

[Tesla DeLorean]

Posted on February 11, 2018 at 15:23

Well the original F7 offering was always pretty sad given the competition released a better CM7 (FPU-D, 300 MHz) from the outset.

I might suspect that ST has stepped the die used in the F746 to address some of the errata, and the dearth of boards relates to a flushing of old stock.

To be honest I prefer the F769I-DISC1 currently too, the Ethernet PoE being quite appealing. Although all the boards I have are A step parts.

Would check with FAE's, I'd imagine a couple of boxes of F746I-DISCOs floating around.

[Dan Mackie]

Posted on February 11, 2018 at 16:25

I am not overly concerned about clock speed.  180 and 216 are far beyond the 40 and 50 Mhz 188s I have been programming and building for about 20 years.  I moved to the Arm for multi-vendor stability, and ST has been a fairly reasonable player in that game to date in my books.  I have used their eproms for many years with no difficulty. I am a lot more concerned with smooth integration, and ease of use - solid integration design - making it an effective system component, capable of taking on a range of other devices.  A little like the IBM PC versus the Apple of years ago.  Make it more open, and easier to add other devices.  So for example, choosing a consistent family of commercially available plug-in screens with daylight visibility has much more value than the absolute cheapest screen you can find, and changing the screen interface signalling every time you do another machine.  And making it a plug in, rather than a ribbon soldered to the board is a great move in the 769.  With the waving of the agreement I never literally signed, it probably makes more sense to get a 429 with all 144 pins built according to my biases and experience with what we have done to date, and not worry about the next latest greatest clock speed, etc.

[Tesla DeLorean]

Posted on February 11, 2018 at 18:26

The original Arduino Star-Otto board had the same LCD connector, the current version seems to have a different LCD+CAMERA connector.

https://blog.adafruit.com/2017/07/02/is-the-arduino-star-otto-open-source-st_world-arduinoorg-st_news-arduino/

 

The presence of the microSD card socket and Arduino shield socket is something I like to see.

The LCD socket is also on the STM32L4R9-DISCO

http://www.st.com/en/evaluation-tools/32l4r9idiscovery.html

 

I'd like to see an STM32L4R9-DISC1 without the screen

[Bogdan Golab]

Posted on February 11, 2018 at 20:15

I like boards with the LCD fitted. 746-DISCO is my favorite one because the LCD is stable - fixed reliably. I do not like 769-DISCO, 412-DISCO,etc because the LCD is not mounted firmly. But I have a hobbyist perspective.